Alberto Salazar won three New York marathons in the 1980s<\/figcaption><\/figure>\nN.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I can remember watching you starring for Preston in the V.F.\u00a0A on a Sunday afternoon. In fact, you won a Liston Trophy for best player in the V.F.A. What was your sporting background?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Being a Melbournian I didn\u2019t know about sports other that football and cricket, apart from when I went to see Ron Clarke and John Landy run. However, I did win the Combined High Schools Mile one year when someone talked me into running instead of going off to cricket practice. That is a bit of a regret because I would have loved to find out just how quick I could have been if I\u2019d run earlier. In the end I didn\u2019t start running seriously until I was 35 which is a fraction late, particularly over a mile.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What sort of times did you record?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, Neil – as you\u2019ve asked I can honestly say that my last marathon, my last half marathon, my last 1500 metres and my last 800 metres, which were all recorded around the age of 45, are all P.B.\u2019s. I don\u2019t know how many other runners can say that their very last races over a distance were P.B.\u2019s.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And your times for those distances?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Aahhh ….. 2:27 for the marathon, 1:57.6 for the 800, 3:57 for the 1500 metres and 68:30 for the half marathon but I\u2019ve only ever run one half marathon. But the one that was particularly pleasing was the 1500 because it was at the World Masters Championships in Melbourne where I finished equal third with a fellow named Dixon.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Not Rod Dixon, the New Zealand Olympian?<\/strong><\/p>\n(Ed. Rod Dixon won a bronze medal over 1500 metres at the Munich Olympics, then finished fourth at the Montreal Olympics over 5000 metres. To underline his outstanding range of athletic ability, Dixon also won the 1983 New York Marathon in 2:08.59)<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, it was his brother.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Were you an \u2018experiment in one\u2019? Were you trialling your running philosophies with your own training?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, most definitely. I really wanted to find out what I could do. I started out running marathons in the Deek era and really enjoyed that. In fact, I started running long distances for marathons when I was Coaching Co-ordinator \/ Manager for the Victorian Cricket Team. They would be out in the field all day and I felt as though I had to do something so I\u2019d go off and run for 90 minutes. But later on I wanted to find out what I could do over the middle distances so I had to get rid of the \u2018marathon legs\u2019 that I\u2019d developed with all the long, slow running I\u2019d been doing. It took me three years before I could break 4 minutes for the 1500 metres and 2 minutes for the 800 metres. It was interesting because I was getting older, 41, 42, 43 ……… and my times were coming down as I worked out how to train better and get the speed back that I had when I was younger. Basically, I did weights, circuits and the sort of speed work that I didn\u2019t do when I was running marathons.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How important were the weights for getting the speed back in your legs?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 They were very important. I probably had a few fast twitch fibres when I played football but turned those into slow twitch marathon fibres with all the endurance training I was doing. I reckon I probably ran as well as I could run for the marathon, although I ran the 2:27 in Canberra and it might be a little bit harder to run there because of the slight altitude. But I had to get the strength back pretty quickly as I could not wait five years or I\u2019d be 49, so the weights worked well.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Did your VO2 max gradually drop as you aged?<\/strong><\/p>\n(Ed. VO2 max indicates aerobic power although there are other factors that are important in determining running potential. However, elite middle and long distance athletes tend to have high VO2 max readings. In the general population VO2 max readings decrease with age.)<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, it didn\u2019t. While I was running between the ages of 36 and 44 my VO2 max reading didn\u2019t change at all. It just shows you what can happen if you continue to train. As some people say, you can \u2018grow younger\u2019. I didn\u2019t grow younger but in terms of my fitness I was getting faster in all the shorter events and I reckon I could have run faster in the marathon if I had continued.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Were you ever keen to have a serious crack at football at A.F.L., or as it was then, V.F.L. standard?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Actually, I did. One of the Collingwood scouts picked me out when I was 17 and I went straight into the final senior practice match. I had followed Collingwood and I could not believe that I was lining up in the final practice match on Ken Turner, a guy who\u2019d played for Victoria and here I was, a skinny little seventeen year old. I thought they were going to play me in the Under 19\u2019s. It was just ridiculous – I hadn\u2019t even played a game of football that year and I was playing on a guy I\u2019d idolised in front of a crowd of about 25 000 people at Victoria Park. Although I got a few kicks it wasn\u2019t a great start. But I was absolutely \u2018#@&% scared\u2019 and I didn\u2019t know anybody. I never really got going even though I finished third in the Reserve\u2019s Best and Fairest that year. I guess my heart wasn\u2019t really in it so I ended up playing baseball for a year, then a bit of soccer with a group called Northcote Park, which I thoroughly enjoyed. Then I decided that I was going to really study hard until I just happened to be watching Preston play their third game of the season and a guy said, \u201cDick, we\u2019d love you to come down for a kick.\u201d By that stage I was getting itchy feet so I went down and even though I missed the first few games, that was the year I won the Liston Trophy for Best and Fairest in the Competition. The V.F.A. just suited me so well because, without the wings, I could run and use my fitness. With Collingwood, I was too small and would keep running into people. But in the V.F.A. I took great pride in running the opposition off their legs so they\u2019d be exhausted.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 The V.F.A. was a pretty tough competition in those days.<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I did get knocked around a lot, especially after I won the Liston, but I had a few guys like Alan Joyce and John McArthur who played with Hawthorn and Bobby Ireland who came from Fitzroy, who would look after me. If I got hit, one of their guys would be flattened and everybody knew that.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How did you become involved in athletics coaching?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Like a lot of things, by default. I went up to the Institute of Sport by default because I was rapt with my job at the R.M.I.T. at Bundoora but Don Talbot offered me the A.I.S. job when I was lecturing at Deakin, down at Geelong. I didn\u2019t even apply for the position. With the Victorian Cricket Coaching job, Frank Tyson asked me to take over because he had A.B.C. commitments. With the Preston Football Club I was watching the final practice game when they sacked their coach and I was offered the position. With the Preston Cricket Club, Jack Potter (Ed. Jack Potter played Test Cricket for Australia) suddenly resigned and asked me at a party if I could take over. I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever applied for a job – I don\u2019t think I\u2019d know how – I just seem to have fallen into things.<\/p>\n
And with athletic coaching, it was exactly the same. Carolyn Schuwalow came to me and said that she\u2019d lost her scholarship to the A.I.S. and asked if would I coach her? So that\u2019s how I started. Then Andrew Lloyd came down and he had eyes on Carolyn Schuwalow so he\u2019d hang around her. I don\u2019t think he knew much about me but eventually he asked me to coach him as well so he could be near Carolyn rather than he thought I could coach as I had no record at the time. Then, I remember vividly how I came to coach my third athlete. I was around at a mate\u2019s place in Greensborough when I received a call from the States and it was Lisa Martin. She said, \u201cDick, I met you over at the Edinburgh Commonwealth Games with Rob de Castella. Anyway, I have just broken up with my husband and he was my coach. Would you be able to coach me?\u201d<\/p>\n
At this stage she didn\u2019t even know that I was coaching Carolyn. Anyway, I told her that I had a job and that I wasn\u2019t sure if I had the time. In the end she said she\u2019d give me time to think about it – she gave me 24 hours. I said why only 24 hours and she replied that she needed to meet me in Japan in four days time for a race. So that\u2019s how I started with Carolyn, Andrew and Lisa.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You have coached some great athletes.<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh yeah ……. I have really enjoyed the experience. What I reckon has been fantastic is that I have been able to coach people into the 5000 metres and 10 000 metres Finals at the World Championships and the Olympics. Obviously I have been lucky to work with some very talented athletes but no one else has been able to do that in the last 20 years. But now with Craig Mottram and Benita Johnson and the others coming through, I reckon we are ready to take the next step. I just love getting people into finals and having them run up to their potential. There\u2019s been people like Darren Wilson running 60.02 in the Tokyo Half Marathon – that was a real thrill. Unfortunately, Darren couldn\u2019t quite get it all together for more than a year and a half otherwise I believe he would have been an unbelievable champion. Then I\u2019ve worked with Susan Hobson for a year when she made an Olympic Final, Carolyn Schuwalow Olympic Final, Andrew Lloyd winning the Commonwealth Games Gold, Lisa winning a Commonwealth Games Marathon when I told her to slow down and save herself for another race – she ran 2:25 but could have run 2:22 or 2:23 and broken the World Record. Later we found out that she was pregnant but she didn\u2019t know it at the time and obviously didn\u2019t run for a while. I also had a good year with Kate Anderson when she was running well. More recently I\u2019ve worked with Nickey Carroll. She\u2019s just coming back after some hormonal problems. In fact, she\u2019s up at Falls Creek now and it\u2019s the first time she\u2019s been able to train properly for 18 months. Then there\u2019s Liz Miller, who has been great to work with although she\u2019s had similar thyroid problems to Nickey Carroll.<\/p>\nAustralian running legend Susan Hobson<\/figcaption><\/figure>\nN.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Marathon champion of the 1980\u2019s, Alberto Salazar also had problems with his thyroid.<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s right. In fact, I tested Alberto and found that he had a loss in efficiency which was affecting his running.<\/p>\n
So , yes, I\u2019ve been really lucky to work with some great runners. Just watching Benita Johnson come through as a 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 year old has been fantastic. Every year watching her progress but not pushing her too hard so that the improvement stops. Making sure to hold her back while she\u2019s developing so her best years are ahead of her.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You\u2019ve mentioned many great athletes that you\u2019ve coached or worked with – people like Rob de Castella. What made these athletes great?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, as you\u2019d know, I was Rob\u2019s Physiologist not his coach as Pat Clohessy was his coach and Pat did a fantastic job with Rob. Rob, along with all the top athletes I have seen or worked with, had an incredible desire to do well. A lot of people said that Lloydy was just a \u2018Fun Runner\u2019 and that was true, he was when I started working with him. But very soon it became very evident that he had an intense desire to do well. He would never shirk on a training session. He used to say, \u201cyou do the thinking – I\u2019ll do the running! You just tell me what to do and I\u2019ll do it! And even if I\u2019m struggling, I\u2019ll run myself into the ground until I do it!\u201d That\u2019s the sort of attitude he had. Now, I don\u2019t think that\u2019s necessarily the right attitude because I have other athletes who will talk to me and say, \u201cGeez, Dick – I\u2019m feeling really tired tonight!\u201d and we\u2019d talk it through and maybe change the session.<\/p>\n
I have been involved in a lot of sports, from Physiologist with the Australian Swimming Team to the Australian Canoeing Team and without doubt, the hardest sport in the world is distance running because I don\u2019t see too many Ethiopian canoeists or Kenyan swimmers or Moroccan triathletes. You see a few soccer players from these countries but you also see one hell of a lot of runners!<\/p>\n
That\u2019s one of the reasons I became involved – it\u2019s the sport that\u2019s the most difficult to reach the top in so why not have a go at it!<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Rob de Castella seemed almost \u2018bulletproof\u201d in that he never seemed to get injured. Was this good management or did he have a body that could handle the pounding?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, there certainly was no luck involved as Pat brought Rob on gradually and sensibly so he could handle the training. One of Pat\u2019s great strengths as a coach was knowing when athletes need to \u2018back off\u2019. Year after year after year, Rob gradually built up the quality and quantity of his training so he could progress without injury. It\u2019s been the same with Benita. Holding athletes back for success later on is one of the best things a coach can do for a developing athlete.<\/p>\nDe Castella – Marathon – Helsinki World Championships 1983<\/figcaption><\/figure>\nN.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Andrew Lloyd\u2019s Commonwealth Games 5000 metre gold in 1990. Was this the most exciting race you\u2019ve been involved in?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think it would have to be. I have seen a lot of exciting races but that\u2019s the one that comes to mind being so excited that I could barely speak because it happened so quickly. That particular year we did really work on Lloydy\u2019s speed. There was no way known he could compete with Yobes Ondieki of John Ngugi in an endurance \/ threshold race. For a start the selectors didn\u2019t want to select him …… typical!!! Anyway, he finally got over there and I figured that he was an outside chance for a bronze if the race was run to suit him. In fact, before the race I would have said a \u2018top 6\u2019 placing would be a fantastic effort. But what we did do was change his training programme a fair bit on the assumption that the race was going to be slow for some reason, like a bad weather day or people \u2018foxing around\u2019, and that it was going to come down to the fast last 400 – 800 metres. So we worked on his speed hoping that he would still be there at the end because if it was run at a fast, even tempo it would have been \u2018see you later, mate!\u2019 Many people have\u00a0critisized\u00a0<\/span>him for sitting on Mona in races and outkicking him at the end but they don\u2019t realise that he couldn\u2019t get past Mona and stay But what Lloydy did have was a huge anaerobic capacity. No matter how \u2018stuffed\u2019 he was at training he could always raise a fast sprint at the end. In training he might be doing a 1600 metre repetition in about 4:30 and he would be running the third lap so you were in doubt that he could even finish the last lap, but you\u2019d say, \u201ccome on Lloydy – go for it!\u201d and he\u2019d always finish fast. Then he might take half an hour to recover where some of the other runners might only take 5 – 10 minutes to recover because he\u2019s more anaerobic.<\/p>\nActually, he missed his best athletic event. His best distance was the 1500 metres. He was able to run 3:36.60 for 1500 metres overseas even though he was about 29 and training mainly for longer races. I reckon if he had concentrated on the 1500 metres \/ mile when he was 20 \/21 years of age he could have been one of our best ever middle distance runners.<\/p>\n
Anyway, we trained for a fast finish and history tells us that the race was slow because Ondieki and Ngugi fell over, but with a lap to go Ngugi was still holding a comfortable lead. Then Lloydy took off like a train and caught Ngugi right on the line.<\/p>\nAndrew Lloyd – Australia – 1990 Commonwealth 5000m Champion<\/figcaption><\/figure>\nN.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And when asked later what he was thinking with 200 metres to go, Lloydy said, \u201cbugger the silver – I\u2019m going for the gold!\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes. So the race was a punt that paid off. Actually, he still ran a P.B.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You have also coached a few athletes that many would call eccentric. Lisa Martin \/ Ondieki probably got the best out of herself by being so single-minded?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, you can argue that way because attitudes can be a positive or a negative, depending on the situation. However, I\u2019ve never come across anyone with the work ethic that Lisa possessed. She would just devote herself to the training required. Lisa didn\u2019t need to go out and run in the forests, she would just run ten miles around the lake in the morning, then ten miles around the lake again in the afternoon. Next day, it was the same again, except for her long runs and track sessions. We would do 200\u2019s and 400\u2019s on the track but her training was basically, track and lake, track and lake!<\/p>\n
Later on she changed a bit but she only did that because Yobes wanted to run in the forest. But she had unbelievable tenacity. However, I don\u2019t believe that she got the best out of herself. A couple of years before the \u201896\u2019 Olympics she fell over the front porch, damaging the sole of her foot. This stopped her running in the years when I thought she was capable of beating the Australian Record. It was really sad, actually because she spent a lot of her money and so much time and emotional energy trying to get it right. But it was never the same again – she found it difficult to flex her foot properly and the 18 months leading up to the Atlanta Olympics was pretty tough for her. She even moved to Townsville to live and did everything right but she couldn\u2019t run properly. And all because of a simple fall, not because of a running injury.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You tell the story of Lisa having low iron stores at one stage and you suggested that she eat a little liver. Could you please relate what happened next?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 This is a pretty good indication of how Lisa sees things. Everything about her running had to be just right. When she became iron deficient I told her about how good liver was in fixing this deficiency rather than just taking tablets. Anyway, I thought she\u2019d just have a serve of liver once a week. Then two or three weeks later I asked her how the liver was going and she said, \u201cfine\u201d. Then I asked her if she liked it and she replied, \u201cNo, I don\u2019t really like it but it\u2019s OK.\u201d Next I asked if she\u2019d cooked it two or three times and she said, \u201cNo, I\u2019ve eaten it every single day and if that\u2019s what I need to keep my iron stores at the right level, I\u2019ll keep eating it every single day!\u201d But that\u2019s Lisa for you – an athlete who would do whatever it took to run well.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Darren Wilson was another incredible talent – his 60.02 for the Tokyo Half Marathon is arguably the Australian distance running record that is closest to World Standards. Leading up to that run did you think he would run that fast?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No …….. His training indicated he was going to run well but 60:02 was incredible. I would have been happy with sub 62. He was very fit and had put in a great year of training. He\u2019d done everything right and I don\u2019t take credit for that – it was, Glenda, his partner who supplied the stability that he needed to run well.<\/p>\n
That year I was overseas for a while but he just completed every training session. None of the sessions were sensational but I didn\u2019t want that –\u00a0\u00a0 what I did want was the consistency, just getting the work done. He went to Falls Creek that year and a few of the guys were astounded that he ran so well in Tokyo after not running super well on the mountain. However, I told him to hold back at Falls Creek and let the others go if they wanted to \u2018hammer\u2019 a session – that his race was in Tokyo, not Falls Creek. A few of them must have thought he was unfit. But when he came back from Falls Creek I hammered him for five days, then rested him for a week before his race.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What sort of sessions did you set for those tough five days?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 They were just standard workouts at around threshold pace. I\u2019d have to check my diaries but it would have been things like a set of hard 400\u2019s, a set of hard 5 minute efforts, a very hard \u2018all out\u2019 30 minute effort away from the track. Just sessions that required him to run \u2018flat out\u2019 with good rest in between so he would be recovering between efforts. These five days were a real \u2018tune-up\u2019 block. But for Darren to run 60.02 was fantastic, especially when you consider that Mona\u2019s best was 60.06 on the same course. Then Darren\u2019s form continued when he ran 27:37.00 for 10 km. just behind Shaun Creighton\u2019s Australian Record (27:31.92). In fact, in the lead up to the Zatopek, I had Darren and Shaun training together which was fantastic for both of them. I remember one day when I set up a session so they were going to compete, although they didn\u2019t know it. The session was to run four repetition miles really quick 4:13 to 4:15 and I knew it was going to be on. From that session I could tell that they were both ready to run really<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What do you reckon is Darren\u2019s best distance?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think 10 km.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 He has been doing some training up here this year. Is he serious about a come-back?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 He has said he\u2019s serious a few times. Darren\u2019s problems are mainly to do with his finances and getting into a position where he can support himself so that he can run. He needs to focus on his running and not worry about the rest of his life. However, unless he comes to Canberra with me, I know I will not have any control so he would have to be coached by someone where he\u2019s living. Darren is a high maintenance athlete!<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nickey Carroll is another of your athletes that is a little eccentric in that she does not train on the track but would rather do all her running in the bush. How did you come to work with Nickey and the reasons behind her training preferences?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 When Nickey rang me to ask if I would coach her, at first I thought I was talking to Nyla Carroll from New Zealand, who I had coached before. I had met Nickey once before in Athens but had spoken to her for only about 5 minutes in total. However, Nickey and her partner, Don have become really close friends. Nickey\u2019s come from an ultra – marathon background and can\u2019t understand why people want to run on the track. This morning we went down the road past Howman\u2019s Gap and ran for an hour along fern lined trails.<\/p>\n
She just loves to run in the bush – her eyes really light up. I sometimes feel that she doesn\u2019t always put the competition first, but rather the running. She wants to run marathons and she wants to run them fast but it\u2019s the expectations from everyone else that worries her. My job is to continually work with her to run on the track and to run more races. She gets very nervous before races and I personally believe that she wants to avoid being nervous. She even gets nervous being around other athletes because they remind her that she should be training on the track and racing more often. That\u2019s why she tends to stay away from other runners.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Has she got over the last few D.N.F.\u2019s while representing Australia?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 She has because she knows the reasons for them. She had a couple of problems, one was nerve compression in the hip and the other was the interaction between some of her hormones and that is partly a hereditary problem. The result of these two problems were that she was getting very tired and as happened at the Sydney Olympics, her foot went numb, absolutely numb so that she almost fell over. Physically she just could not run on after 20 kilometres. Then she feels that people thinks she\u2019s a \u2018nut case\u2019 because of the problems we talked about before. So all these things build up the pressure. But now she\u2019s on the up and over the last few weeks she\u2019s the best I\u2019ve seen her for a couple of years. Unbelievably, when she ran 2 hours 25 minutes for the 1999 London Marathon, she was not fully fit so it will be interesting to see what she can do in the future.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You mentioned Benita Johnson before. It must be really exciting to get a talented kid that you think will go places as long as you\u2019re patient? What did you think when she first turned up?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I knew she was a good runner but there were another five girls nearly as good as she was but Benita was in a position to come down to the A.I.S. However, I asked her to come down because I was worried she was going to go to hockey and I didn\u2019t want Ric Charlesworth to get her. In hindsight, that was one of the best decisions in my life. I was able to offer her a full scholarship which we would not normally be able to do and without that full scholarship, I don\u2019t think we would have got her. We\u2019ve had athletes like Mark Thompson and Martin Dent and Clint Mackevicius to who I\u2019ve had to say, \u201clook, I can coach you and we can give you a little sports medicine back-up and we can contribute $30 a week towards your rent, but that\u2019s it!\u201d But I was not going to take any chances with Benita because if I didn\u2019t, Ric Charlesworth would grab her.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Was she that good at hockey?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, she was. I reckon with Benita\u2019s temperament and physical abilities she could have gone to senior Australian representation.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And you were saying that you deliberately held her back when she was young?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, I\u2019ve deliberately held her back every year, even last year. I said to Benita when she was 17,<\/p>\n
\u201cI can\u2019t be sure but there\u2019s a chance that by the time you\u2019re 25 you could be one of the world\u2019s best runners. However, we are going to work up gradually and sensibly.\u201d<\/p>\n
A lot of the work I gave Benita was not measureable, it was done on grass. I\u2019d improvise some of her sessions where she might be running on the inside of the guys and so covering less distance. She would also do a lot of fartlek style sessions where she would be running for time rather than distance and time. I could have had Benita running faster when she was younger but you\u2019ve got to look at the \u2018big picture\u2019.<\/p>\nA young Benita Willis running the QLD states title<\/figcaption><\/figure>\nN.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Was it tough to lose her to Nick Bideau, who is now coaching her?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, but I consider that part of coaching. It\u2019s tough knowing that going into the Commonwealth Games she had an iron deficiency and diarrhoea that I didn\u2019t pick up at the time. She told me she had the diarrhoea but she was taking iron tablets. However, something was wrong because she was racing over 3000 metres and her threshold just wasn\u2019t there. Training was going pretty well even though we weren\u2019t measuring a lot of it because I didn\u2019t want to put her under too much pressure on the training track. As it turned out she wasn\u2019t absorbing the iron and her ferritin went down. Then four or five weeks after the Commonwealth Games her ferritin is up and she\u2019s running well again.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Did she eat liver or continue taking iron supplements?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 She ate liver and also took some different supplements once she could absorb the iron. However, it\u2019s great that she\u2019s doing so well. I thought that last year she could win a medal at the Commonwealth Games but for her iron problem. A lot of people looking on may think that the training wasn\u2019t right or she doesn\u2019t run well in the \u2018big ones\u2019 – that\u2019s a lot of rubbish. She\u2019s broken Australian Records, she\u2019s finished fourth at the World Cross – Country, she\u2019s run really well in the \u2018big ones\u2019 except the Commonwealth Games when I wasn\u2019t there. I\u2019ll never make the mistake of not being around an athlete in the lead-up to a major competition again because you can\u2019t really see the full picture. People may look at the Commonwealth Games and say, \u201cDick did not prepare Benita properly\u201d, but that\u2019s rubbish. I\u2019ve had so many athletes now who have competed well in major finals and I know how to prepare athletes to run their best. It\u2019s simple – anyone can do it!<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What is your coaching philosophy?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I would say variety in training and an individual training programme so that each of my athletes is training differently. I can\u2019t think of any two of my athletes who train the same although they often share sessions. However, most coaches would adopt an individualised programme.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How many do you have in your squad?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Ummm …… Probably sixteen at the moment. However, I don\u2019t just coach champion athletes. I\u2019ve got a lot of people who are not going to champions but the common factor amongst all the athletes I coach is that they want to be the best they can be. And I try to treat all my athletes as equals from the scholarship holder to the athlete trying to break 15 minutes for 5 km. If they\u2019re in my squad and they\u2019re having a \u2018real dip\u2019, then as far as I\u2019m concerned they\u2019re equals. One athlete may be more important for my coaching career but that doesn\u2019t influence how I work with my athletes.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I\u2019ve heard you say that one of your coaching goals is to have each of your athletes recording a P.B. every year.<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, I feel that I have done my job if that happens. The satisfaction gained from running a P.B. is enormous. Occasionally there will be something that interferes with an athlete running a P.B. so then you look for reasons and try to remedy those.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What sort of testing do you regularly undertake with your athletes to see if they\u2019re fit and healthy and not overtraining?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I don\u2019t test for over – training, I just talk to them . We do blood testing for iron and magnesium and a few other bits and pieces to see what\u2019s going on. Philo Saunders from the R.M.I.T. is doing his Ph.d and I\u2019m his supervisor and he and I are looking at running economy. We know that running economy is very important so we\u2019re looking at what effects economy – things like training, altitude, heat etc.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 At the moment we have athletes such as Gebrselassie, Khannouchi, Radcliffe and El Guerrouj running unbelievable times. Why is this happening? Are they just superstars or are they doing something we aren\u2019t doing?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Ummmm ……. I think as we progress the genetic pool improves. Also, there is a lot more money going into the sport now so athletes can become fully professional, can utilize the best in training facilities and training knowledge and stay in the sport for longer. That\u2019s a few of the reasons. However, we do know that drugs such as anabolic steroids, E.P.O., growth hormone and blood-doping before that have been used. So there\u2019s no point in saying that the sport is clean because it\u2019s not. However, I try not to think about that because it\u2019s completely out of our control. So for some records drugs could be a contributing factor. But having said all that I would be absolutely dismayed if a few of the people you mentioned were doing anything wrong. I personally don\u2019t think they are.<\/p>\nPaula Radcliffe breaks the world marathon record with a time of 2hrs 15mins and 25secs in London in 2003<\/figcaption><\/figure>\nN.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What are your comments on the Aouita Programme that some Australian coaches are using?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s the Moroccan Programme and I discussed it with his runners in 1993 so it\u2019s nothing new to me. I incorporate it into my training programme although my training is not the Moroccan Program, it\u2019s an Australian Programme that has some Kenyan, Moroccan, New Zealand, Ethiopian, Australian elements to it.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So you believe that you\u2019ve taken the best elements of each Programme?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Ummmm ……. It\u2019s what I believe is the best but it\u2019s probably not. However, if you\u2019ve studied the \u2018big picture\u2019 and you think you\u2019re getting the best out of your athletes and they\u2019re running P.B.\u2019s every year, it\u2019s very difficult to suddenly change your programme dramatically and begin doing something different. I\u2019ve actually talked to Said about that and he\u2019s happy because he looks at a programme and sees a whole lot of common elements. I talked to Said this morning and I told him about the sessions we\u2019d completed over the last week and he said that sounded great. But he\u2019s been given a job to do and if he said to me, \u201cyes, that\u2019s good but you could improve this aspect of your training,\u201d I\u2019d listen because the guy must know a lot – he\u2019s been one of the greatest athletes we\u2019ve ever seen, I\u2019ve even got his autographed picture on my wall at home – he\u2019s got to know something. What people must remember is that he\u2019s coming from a completely different system to a democratic Australian system were people are doing lots of different things. One thing I have learnt over the years is that there are many ways to get an athlete to run 28 minutes for 10 km. There might be one slightly better way but in Australia there are choices to be made. However, in other countries there is the National Programme that everyone follows. At first, I think Said was taken by surprise when some people didn\u2019t want to follow his Programme but I think his heart is in the right place.<\/p>\n
N.M. \u00a0 \u00a0 Do you know his Programme all the way through because at the meeting held at the V.I.S. a few weeks ago people walked away from a little confused as to what happens in Phase 2, Phase 3, Phase 4 etc.?<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, I don\u2019t know the complete programme, I just know the philosophy but I\u2019ll go through the specifics with Said when I get back to Canberra. One of the main problems was that many coaches had already done a winter programme and did not need to complete Phase 1 first. You need to enter a programme according to what stage you\u2019re at. I\u2019d have athletes ready to go into Phase 2 and 3 because we\u2019ve got our racing season coming up. But what\u2019s Athletics Australia going to say to me if I say, \u201csorry, we\u2019re not going to run these three races.\u201d They\u2019ll answer, \u201cOK, but your athletes won\u2019t be considered for selection and Dick, you won\u2019t have your job in two years time.\u201d<\/p>\n
Many of the guys in Morocco that Said has worked with were already international athletes that knew they were going to be selected or qualify. I don\u2019t have any athletes guaranteed of selection. I wish I did so that I could take a much different approach. For a start, I wouldn\u2019t be peaking someone for a 10 km. in New Zealand on February 16th when the main races are much later on.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Craig Mottram commented that he was glad he\u2019d run a few qualifiers in Europe last season so that he could use our domestic season as preparation rather than chasing qualifying times.<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, that\u2019s a huge advantage. We\u2019ve got a lot of things to consider in Australia with people going to the World Cross – Country and other races. There\u2019s no point in our athletes running this race OK and that race OK. You\u2019ve got to run some races the best you possibly can if you want to go to another level and trying to have multiple peaks is not easy unless you\u2019re an absolute champion who can roll through a few events and win at less than 100%, both physically and psychologically.<\/p>\n
N.M.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Dick, thank you very much for your time and all the best for the upcoming year.<\/strong><\/p>\nD.T.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Thanks, Neil.<\/p>\n
\n
End<\/p>\n
\n
Neil MacDonald\u00a0managed the Geelong Region Cross Country team from 2000-2007.<\/b><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
The below interview is thanks to Neil MacDonald, who caught up with Dick Telford in January 2003.\u00a0 With Neil\u2019s permission, the interview has been restored so that today\u2019s generation can appreciate and learn from one of Australia\u2019s greatest ever coaches. Neil MacDonald\u00a0managed the Geelong Region Cross Country team from 2000-2007. DICK TELFORD –\u00a0TAKING A SCIENTIFIC […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":23191,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[16,6116,7252,2396,2310],"tags":[458,488,1464,187,83],"class_list":["post-23184","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-features","category-interviews","category-macdonalds-interviews","category-performance-articles","category-training-of-famous-runners","tag-benita-willis","tag-craig-mottram","tag-dick-telford","tag-interview","tag-top-read"],"yoast_head":"\n
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